Speaker 1: Welcome back to the CTOX podcast.
Speaker 1: Your words tell the room who you are, whether you mean to or not. Today, we're unpacking one of the most misunderstood
Speaker 1: leadership skills, executive presence.
Speaker 1: Lior will share how your language,
Speaker 1: pacing, and posture can elevate you from tactician
Speaker 1: to trusted partner, and why the biggest shift has nothing to do with your resume and everything to do with your voice.
Speaker 1: Lior, welcome.
Speaker 2: Thank you. This is gonna be a great conversation.
Speaker 2: And we decided to record this podcast because of a workshop and conversations we have in the accelerator. So I know it's gonna be top of mind for a lot of our listeners.
Speaker 1: Yes. And this was one of the most well received workshops we've done in several months. So, yeah, this is gonna be a great one. So let's start from,
Speaker 1: from the 40,000 foot view. When you talk about executive presence, Lior,
Speaker 1: you often say that it's not about a title, it's about altitude. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: What I mean by that is that you can
Speaker 2: be in a room, and depending on the words you use, you're gonna be perceived in a certain way.
Speaker 2: And it's not about what title you carry. It's not about how old you are. It's about what you talk about. And if you talk about certain topics in a certain way, you're gonna be perceived in leader speak
Speaker 2: and,
Speaker 2: somebody that thinks about the big picture, or you're gonna get received as an individual contributor.
Speaker 2: This can happen to a 60 year old chief operating officer that communicates like a doer, like an individual contributor. And you can also see, you know, young people shine, like 20 year olds or even younger,
Speaker 2: really come off with this leadership presence just because of how they decide
Speaker 2: to talk and what they decide to talk about.
Speaker 1: I can imagine that this,
Speaker 1: your,
Speaker 1: the development of your executive presence can have a pretty significant impact on your bottom line and what you're able to do and achieve as a fractional leader.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the issues that people first come into the accelerator, if you've tried to do any kind of consulting, if you're thinking about it, your mental model is gonna be framed around hours, around effort,
Speaker 2: which means you're already tying in
Speaker 2: the way you think about things in the context of the work you do and not the value create or the impact
Speaker 2: that you generate for the business.
Speaker 2: And so part of what we're gonna talk about today and part of us shifting your mindset is exactly to be more value oriented, impact oriented big picture,
Speaker 2: and less down to earth lobby level,
Speaker 2: which would basically,
Speaker 2: yeah, put you in that hourly context and your ability to get out of it and make more money.
Speaker 2: And not just more money on your time, but more money on your value is gonna be very limited until you make this shift.
Speaker 1: So what are those three rungs of communication
Speaker 1: that most CTO slide between?
Speaker 1: And what does it sound like?
Speaker 2: So the way we look at it is for simplicity's
Speaker 2: sake,
Speaker 2: is think about the difference between an individual contributor, somebody that does the work,
Speaker 2: manager,
Speaker 2: somebody that coordinates work, and then leader, somebody that inspires work,
Speaker 2: creates impact, creates vision, creates capabilities as opposed to managing capability or actually doing things. So let's say for example, let's say you have in a sit given a situation, a product launch failed to hit targets, and you're in a meeting and the chief marketing officer says that technology didn't deliver what we needed.
Speaker 2: And I see an individual contributor speak would be something like, actually, we delivered everything that was in the requirements document. Right? Very specific scope, very down to earth.
Speaker 2: The manager would be like, let me pull the project documentation so we can review what was scoped versus what was expected.
Speaker 2: Already way better. You can see this instant change between those two,
Speaker 2: examples. But then the leader
Speaker 2: would go back to the big framed impact.
Speaker 2: The launch didn't hit targets.
Speaker 2: That's the problem we're solving rather than,
Speaker 2: relitigating the scope.
Speaker 2: Let's look at what we learned. What would we do differently? What's the path to be covering those numbers? I have some thoughts on where the bottleneck actually is. And you notice
Speaker 2: you go from this very defensive
Speaker 2: blaming,
Speaker 2: actually, with this so and so. You kinda make it very concrete as opposed to, well, you can't change the past,
Speaker 2: and this is about teamwork and about the future.
Speaker 2: So you reframe. You acknowledge what had happened.
Speaker 2: Let's look at what learned. Objectify
Speaker 2: it because you can't change it.
Speaker 2: And then you also make it collaborate. What would we do differently? What's the path to becoming those numbers? And lastly is, how are you a part of this? I have some some thoughts on where the bottleneck actually is as opposed to all of this being not in you, not around you, but rather through you, and you can take ownership of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. This is great. I I noticed as you were going through each of those scenarios,
Speaker 1: I was imagining people around a table and how that meeting would feel, but it's that leader level
Speaker 1: where you really get to the breakthrough
Speaker 1: solutions that either
Speaker 1: improve the system, improve the process, improve,
Speaker 1: how the result is being created. But in any in any case,
Speaker 1: it improves the business overall, which is,
Speaker 2: kind of the point. That's the point of view as a leader.
Speaker 1: So why do even
Speaker 1: experienced
Speaker 1: technology leaders sometimes default to that tactical mode?
Speaker 2: I think it's habit. You know, most CTOs communicate like builders,
Speaker 2: not strategist because they are. They're builders.
Speaker 2: A lot of our job
Speaker 2: is to is to apply logic, think in sequence. Like, what are the what is the order of operations that need to go? And if you've been around long enough, you really can dive into the
Speaker 2: specific unit of action that needs to happen.
Speaker 2: So it's easy and natural to think that way.
Speaker 2: That's how, you know, we build up in our career.
Speaker 2: And mostly, a lot of the problems that technology leaders are with
Speaker 2: are used to dealing with are very specific. It's like a piece of code or specific software or specific information that moves from x to y. And until they actually go to the c level, to the c suite,
Speaker 2: they don't really need to think of that level because some other c suite,
Speaker 2: professional had given them the direction, and now they're figuring out the details. But, actually, for you as a fractional CTO, you're the one that needs to make sure the direction
Speaker 2: as well. But then other people then figure out the leader. So I think it's mostly
Speaker 2: that tactical thinking is often hobbits,
Speaker 2: and it's not it's not allowing you
Speaker 2: to resonate as a leader in the room.
Speaker 1: What are some of the language shifts that can help you stay at that leadership altitude?
Speaker 2: So part of it is like we said. So objectify. So in that example, like a product launch fit to hit target, just say the launch didn't hit target.
Speaker 2: Right? Don't go to the widest. First of all, recognize the project for what it is and identify the problem. That's why is it in the example, it's that's the problem we're solving, meaning you know the difference between signal and noise.
Speaker 2: And maybe you solve it with technology, but maybe you don't. You make sure on an executive level, everybody understands what are the problem needs to be solved to,
Speaker 2: to get the business impact that everybody's looking for. So objectification,
Speaker 2: make sure that you're not just diving into the details. As soon as you're diving into the details, like you talk about a specific system or specific process, you're already not in leadership speak.
Speaker 2: Right? And lastly is the the communal aspect of it. So less I, less them,
Speaker 2: right, more we.
Speaker 2: And the and the we, I mean, by royal we. Right? Like, how do we participate together and recover those numbers?
Speaker 2: And once you frame it as the we, then you can say my part in the we is this is my thoughts. This is where I think the problem actually is. So as long as in the leadership suite, you actually end up mostly focusing on the impact and the result and not the how, if most of your time goes there, then you're gonna be perceived as the leader in the room and not the doer in the room that's taking notes and and really just air traffic control tasks to someone else to do.
Speaker 1: I imagine
Speaker 1: that,
Speaker 1: staying at that leadership level, because this is a learned skill, it also requires a little bit of self awareness.
Speaker 1: How can CTOs
Speaker 1: recognize
Speaker 1: when they've slipped into that IC mode
Speaker 1: and pull themselves back out in real time.
Speaker 2: I think if you end up talking about specific systems or processes instead of what is the situation,
Speaker 2: what are the options that we have, and what are the recommendations
Speaker 2: that I have, then you know you're slipping
Speaker 2: into the
Speaker 2: wrong part of your ladder, the wrong rung. Right? If you keep the conversation around the situation, the options, the recommendations you have got SOR, sore,
Speaker 2: then you know you're about decision making and you're about impact division. And if you're not using those words, you're probably some kind of, in triage mode, specific mode that means you're not in leadership speak.
Speaker 2: And also use in conversation. Use silence. Use pacing.
Speaker 2: Don't just talk. Don't just fill the space to prove value.
Speaker 2: My part of it is
Speaker 2: if you've really focused on the impact, there's not so much to say about it. There's a lot to say about how about implementation. So if you find yourself speaking for five minutes straight, you're probably out of it.
Speaker 2: Focusing on vision,
Speaker 2: outcomes, systems,
Speaker 2: people, humans,
Speaker 2: and not specific,
Speaker 2: you know, software specific processes, then it means you're in the leadership speaking. If you're not, it means that you're sliding out. Now sometimes it's okay to slide out. That's why I'm thinking about it, you know, percent of conversation. But you you need to be 85, 90%
Speaker 2: on the leadership track and not the other one. So you keep that presence as a leader.
Speaker 1: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: What happens
Speaker 1: when
Speaker 1: your language
Speaker 1: and your energy
Speaker 1: don't match your title?
Speaker 1: Like, this could be someone who has
Speaker 1: either the leadership
Speaker 1: title and they're they're not communicating in that level or the reverse.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's
Speaker 2: first of all, it's gonna affect your income,
Speaker 2: because if people can't trust you, and that's, like,
Speaker 2: implicit trust. Right? Because they're think they're not reacting to you in a certain way, then it's gonna be pretty hard for you to rally your team. It's gonna be pretty hard for you to renew your contract. It's gonna be pretty hard for you to get bigger contracts. But one of the examples I give, in one of my client CTOs, I had,
Speaker 2: I had an IC in the company that I decided to promote to be a director.
Speaker 2: Okay? Director of product. Very talented guy. I figured I can teach him product. I can't teach him how to care. I can't teach him four years of being in the company knowing all the systems. And what had happened for the first six months, all of the other executives were still treating him like an IC,
Speaker 2: like an individual contributor in conversations, in meetings because he was still
Speaker 2: using those words. Like, somebody would come up with a problem. He's like, oh, I'm gonna check this system and log in and make sure that the data is good. So he was kept using such grounded language that people were just treating him
Speaker 2: like the hands of the wheel that he used to be.
Speaker 2: And as soon as I reflected back to him because he was so busy because he was just reactive all the time, and he started shifting his words
Speaker 2: to somebody else is gonna do it. This will get taken care of, not I will take care of it and so on.
Speaker 2: Then almost instantly, all the leaders responded,
Speaker 2: again, implicitly, not explicitly. Right? Meaning, they didn't think about it. They're just like, in practice, what was happening, he changed his reaction and his words, and they changed their reactions
Speaker 2: and their words.
Speaker 2: So kind of being being aware
Speaker 2: that
Speaker 2: if you have some anxiety
Speaker 2: around your position, it would make you over explain. It would make you seek permission. It would make you seek validation, and leaders don't do that.
Speaker 2: When you speak, you treat people how to treat you. So if you're gonna be very grounded, very tactical, guess what? People are just gonna be tactical about you. They're not gonna they're not gonna try to talk to you about vision stuff, and they're not gonna respect you as a leader because you give them no implicit reason to do it. But as soon as you shift out of it, they're happy to talk to you. They're happy to match your energy.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 1: Now
Speaker 1: one of the
Speaker 1: scenarios
Speaker 1: that we can often go,
Speaker 1: back to our default conditioning and our default communication patterns is in high pressure moments.
Speaker 1: What are some of the resets that you might suggest,
Speaker 1: fractional CTOs and leaders listening adopt so that they,
Speaker 1: can return to that leadership voice.
Speaker 2: So instead of reacting immediately with solutioning, which is very common for builders, very common for problem solvers, a lot of CTOs identify themselves as problem solvers,
Speaker 2: Use
Speaker 2: questions.
Speaker 2: Use questions. Don't offer solution immediately.
Speaker 2: So somebody says, can we do this? Instead of saying, yes. We can do it. We can go to that system and do that. No. No. No. It's like, why do you wanna do this?
Speaker 2: That's why in other episodes, we're talking about the what and why conversation.
Speaker 2: Why do you wanna do this? Why is that important? As soon as you ask why and why is that important, everybody's like, woah. Woah. Woah. They're thinking about impact.
Speaker 2: They're resonating with you as a leader. So instead of immediately
Speaker 2: offer solutions,
Speaker 2: ask questions.
Speaker 2: Now if you happen to be
Speaker 2: in a conversation with somebody who's actually
Speaker 2: testing your technical jobs, we call it like a silverback moment. Right? So maybe it's a CEO, maybe it's somebody doubting you because they use cloud code for a little bit.
Speaker 2: Just show the technical chops briefly. Like, just say something. Say something that sounds like you know what you're talking about
Speaker 2: for ten seconds, but then pivot to outcomes. The conversation has to be around outcomes
Speaker 2: and impact
Speaker 2: so you have confidence. Now one of the recommendations that I give,
Speaker 2: that I hold is have very strong opinions but weakly held.
Speaker 2: So you wanna appear confident, but you don't wanna appear stubborn.
Speaker 2: So if there's new information that comes in
Speaker 2: that warrants you changing your mind, you should. You'll be respected if you change your mind. You're not gonna be respected
Speaker 2: if you're stubborn. And that is to say, you need to be able to explain your position
Speaker 2: and not just explain it in words of your call forward, but
Speaker 2: have confidence when you say your opinion about something. And then if new information comes in, be adaptable. So as long as you focus on,
Speaker 2: questions, as long you focus on impact, as long as you focus on,
Speaker 2: bring all your information with confidence, you're gonna be appeared as the leader in the room even if your title is just a, you know, very low level title with relative to a c suite.
Speaker 1: So important.
Speaker 1: Makes me think about I wish I could go back in
Speaker 1: every leadership room I've ever been in and just run, like, a real time
Speaker 1: sentiment analysis of where people were communicating from. I can't imagine what, like, the next generation of executives is gonna have in terms of their capabilities
Speaker 1: when it comes to this stuff.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 1: So for someone who's listening
Speaker 1: and they're really thinking differently about their executive communication,
Speaker 1: What's one small shift you'd suggest they make this week to speak more like a leader?
Speaker 2: I think those question orientation,
Speaker 2: it's so easy, and it's scary at first because you're thinking you're challenging
Speaker 2: something. Like, you're disagreeing. No. You're not challenging. You're clarifying.
Speaker 2: And it's almost instant. Instead of instead of immediately giving solutions, if somebody's asking for something, you just ask
Speaker 2: why. What's the best impact? What would be the best result? And that would instantly, without really doing much, already put you at a different benchmark as a leader, and then the conversation is gonna shift to the impact level, and then you're just surfing that impact layer instead of being down on the execution.
Speaker 1: Beautiful.
Speaker 1: Well, if this episode helped you spot your own language patterns, share it with a fellow CTO who's ready to level up from tactician
Speaker 1: to trusted leader. And if you'd like for us to talk more about executive presence,
Speaker 1: leave us a comment.
Speaker 1: Shout us out on social media. We'd love, love, love to hear from you and any questions you have regarding this. See you next time.
Speaker 2: See you next time.