Inside CTOx with Michael Virnoche (Final).m4a Mon, Feb 9, 2026 0:00 - Michael Virnoche talking to all these people, like it didn't matter if you came from healthcare startups or whatever, like we all solve so many very similar problems, but like when you're in it, you all think it's like this unique problem just to your client or your world. And then you, you know, you see out there that no, really, we're all fighting most of the same issues. 0:23 - Donna Welcome to Inside CTOx Podcast. I'm Dana. Head of Membership and Partnership. And today we're stepping Inside the minds of some of the most innovative tech leaders out there. This isn't just a podcast. It's a place where CTO journeys come alive. Where stories of struggles, breakthroughs, and growths unfold. We're here to unpack the experiences of real CTOs navigating through our CTOx Accelerator and Membership Program. So sit back, tune in, let's get into the story. Welcome to another episode of Inside CTOx. Today, I am delighted to introduce you to Michael Vernosh. Michael is a visionary tech leader who has rose to become the chief architect of one of the largest MSSP platforms in the world, where he helped process billions of security events every day. Over his storied career at IBM, IBM, he collected over a hundred awards, multiple patents, and high-level technical honors that cemented his status as a world-class innovator. And since joining CTOx, Michael has channeled that same expertise into building a high-impact fractional CTO service, helping companies navigate complex technical challenges while creating a career on his own terms, from architecting global security infrastructures to designing a life of freedom and purpose. Michael's journey is a masterclass in what is possible when elite tech leaders just bet on themselves. Welcome, Michael. 2:07 - Donna Delighted to have you here. 2:09 - Michael Virnoche Good to be here. 2:12 - Donna You joined CTOx, you were one of the very, very early, early adopters in CTOx and we're to call you one of our Finder members, but talk to us about finding out about CTOx. How did that happen? 2:28 - Michael Virnoche Yeah, it was kind of just one of this weird chismus thing, you know, late at night scrolling like Instagram and I happened to see an ad for it and something in it caught my attention between like Lior and Marissa and I think within like 24 hours I was on the call talking to him. 2:47 - Donna Do you remember anything special about that call with Leora? 2:52 - Michael Virnoche It was a calming feeling talking to other, it wasn't salesy, it was just, it was a bunch of tech nerds talking to each other. 3:06 - Donna And what was it about C2X and the accelerator that you were like, this is what I need in my life right now? 3:15 - Michael Virnoche I think a lot of it came down to the, the on-ramp of, you know, having to build everything from scratch and, you know, having kind of one of those architect minds, you, you can fall into like the over-engineering everything, you know, when do you know if the website is ready? When do you send out the first email? And it was, you know, CTOx is kind of the group where they had a bunch to help And then I had the pushing of like, nope, just do it. Just, just click the button, just send it. 3:51 - Donna We're a bunch of quick starts. We like to just get in and send it. And so talk to me about that first message getting sent out there. How did that feel? 4:04 - Michael Virnoche Oh, that was stressful. That was, uh, took me, it took me a long time. I think, you know, that one, that took me a long, long time before I finally was willing to do it. To send it but you know you rip the band-aid off you do it the first time and then after that it just gets easier and easier and now it's just it's second nature. 4:22 - Donna That's it everybody has the same story like it's so hard to push that first button and then like after that it just gets easier and easier and easier. So how do you feel about that shift then from like W2 to like entrepreneurship like do you see yourself now as a as a fully-fledged entrepreneur? 4:42 - Michael Virnoche I think I go between the two. So there's, you know, being an entrepreneur and picking and choosing your future, it's a nice feeling of control. It is stressful. I do very much appreciate that I get to pick and choose my clients. I vet the ones that I want to work with and they're not dictated to me. The partnerships and the friendships that I get to make them are, it's a lot different being able to have that level of control. You know, at the same time, the W2 is a very nice and steady and comforting and like, I don't have to worry about the sales funnel and client acquisition and everything else. So, I mean, there's two sides to the coin, but yeah, I think there's definitely, it is nice being able to have the control of who I'm going to be working with because I enjoy working with them. 5:35 - Donna Did you have any entrepreneurial experience before joining CTOx or was this all brand new? 5:44 - Michael Virnoche Entrepreneurial in the sense that like, I've, you know, done consulting and things on the side, but really probably never did it the right way. Like, you know, having to go through like, let's make sure all the paperwork is filed with the right agencies now. And, you know, how do you do the sales and the marketing? It was very much a, you know, people just came to me with a problem and I was like, Yeah, I can fix that problem. Now having to like keep that, that pipeline always going, you know, I think that was the part I never did before. 6:13 - Donna Well, as I always say, like sales is problem solving, like come to me with your problems and I'll find you a solution that is sales. So how did you find the first sales experience, that first sales call? Like, tell us about that. 6:29 - Michael Virnoche It was nerve wracking. You know, I came in and this was one of the things that I talked to Marissa and Leora at first meeting is, you know, selling myself has always been the most uncomfortable thing. Walking into a boardroom and talking to people was never a problem. You know, talking to clients once my foot was in the door was never a problem. But that first, like having to like sell myself was just, it's very uncomfortable. And so going into the first one was very uncomfortable. Uncomfortable of like, am I pitching the right thing? Like, does this pricing make sense? Are they really going to be interested in it? Like how, what if the pitch was wrong? What if I missed something? So, um, you know, in the consulting world, I always had sellers that handled that. Now that I have to do it, it's a very, uh, I have some appreciation for those people now. 7:21 - Donna See, now you're seeing what they all went through trying to get you clients. So what? Would you say was the most surprising thing between that move from that IBM, that huge structure, into that kind of entrepreneurship world? 7:42 - Michael Virnoche I think I switched out the uncertainties now. It was day-to-day world in the corporate world. In my position, there's one fire to the next, but it all kind of had the same grounding area, you know, now it's, uh, as I'm working with clients and working, you know, especially now at the end of the year, the strategy, like I'm planning out, what am I going to be doing two months from now, three months from now, four months from now, that's, it's all different types of fires, but it's, it's different knowing that like, it's not just from, you know, a 24 hour rolling window, what's going to be the next fire, but like, we're going to have a fire four weeks from now. 8:24 - Donna There's never any short of fires, that's for sure. Not an entrepreneurial world. And you were one of the early members, so tell us about other members joining. There's been quite a wide range of members from all different backgrounds, different logos, big and small on that. So tell us a little bit about any interaction with the other members. 8:51 - Michael Virnoche I mean, I think, yeah, it's seeing such a wide range of people that have come into the program. Um, you know, I came from IBM, probably one of the longest, oldest companies, and there's members in here that come from, you know, what used to be our competitors. Um, so it's like interesting to see that, you know, the, the, uh, experience that they had on the other side of the fence, you know, from the corporate side of the world. Um, but just, you know, talking to all these people, like it didn't matter if you came from healthcare startups or whatever, like we all solve so many very similar problems. But like when you're in it, you all think it's like this unique problem just to your client or your world. And then, you know, you see out there that not really, we're all fighting most of the same issues. 9:40 - Donna That's right. Like everybody sort of feels, you know, we hear this a lot that they feel like so like alone and it's only me, it's only my problem, it's only this and then they come into this community and just everybody's in the same boat, like different levels, but like definitely the same boat. Was there any moments or any people in particular in the membership that stand out? 10:02 - Michael Virnoche I think the two biggest ones that I've always tried to fall back on, you know, keeping the relationships there would be Sanjay. I think Sanjay joined right around the same time I did. That's right. So one of the, you know, the original OGs back in the day. Um, you know, he had just a very interesting story and I never really thought about CTOs in the legal space. That was an area, didn't, you know, it makes sense, but it was one that I'd never even thought about. Um, and then George Reyna, um, I think was, I don't know if he was one of the earlier ones to join, but just the, his rapid acceptance of like everything AI and finding neat ways to use it. It just, it seems like every week I'm getting some new, you know, bit of information or some new neat thing that he built. And I'm like, wow, that's, that's super helpful. 10:52 - Donna He's been so helpful to the community and to us on the coaching side as well. Like he just, yeah, he's always coming up with new ideas. And, and I think like, you know, being one of the younger members, you know, joining he was always like the most like energetic from them. So as I mentioned earlier, you've won a few awards, one or two. So how does it feel when you win those awards versus the other accomplishments that you gain through being an entrepreneur? 11:29 - Michael Virnoche I think it's a similar feeling. In the corporate world, you have to try and win these awards to have some feeling of like you did a good job. And they start to come out, and there's different tiers. And values to them and all of that. But, you know, working with my clients on a day-to-day basis and seeing that, you know, they've hit their next milestone target or they're growing, you know, how we had planned to get them there and they're, you know, we're both mutually hitting the goals that we had defined. Like, it's not a, you know, a little award that, you know, comes in the mail or something tangible like that, but there is that award that like, you know, I'm tying, my success to their success. And so as long as we're both moving in the right direction, it's, you know, it's rewarding versus necessarily needing a reward. 12:19 - Donna That's a great way, but rewarding versus rewarded. And I, what I love about what you're saying is like, you're part of that team. Like, I think sometimes people see fractional CTO as more along the lines of like a consultant or an external person coming in, whether we like to think of fractional CTOs as a CTO as a member of the team. Do you see that a lot with your current clients? Do you feel like part of the team? 12:49 - Michael Virnoche Yeah, I think, you know, very much so. It's, you know, right there in it with the other, you know, the executive teams and the leadership on these companies, whether it's in their, you know, strategy planning meetings that we're doing now that we're in, you know, Q4 to, you know, just knowing that when they're not sure on to do something, you know, it's me that they're going to, you know, ping. You know, and we're sitting in Slack together. So, um, you know, I think, yeah, I've done years of consulting where like you come in, you fix your thing, you leave and you just, you know, you're in and out. Um, again, I think it goes back to being able to pick and choose the clients that I want to work with because I value those long-term, um, relationships. 13:27 - Donna So, yeah, long-term relationships for, for sure. And that's the, you know, we talk about the different, the four freedoms that one of those freedoms is getting to choose the clients and I don't know if you attended recently, but Lior did a session on red flags clients. 13:45 - Michael Virnoche I'll have to catch that replay. 13:48 - Donna You have to watch that replay. 13:49 - Donna It's a really good one because I think probably 30 to 40% of the membership has had that experience with either, but maybe they haven't converted as a client, but maybe in that lead or prospecting, but they've seen those red flags, but it can be, it can be, it can really kind of dampen, you know, your spirits working with people who just don't have the same mindset or the same values for that. So 12 months, 12 months in, let's look another 12 months out. So the end of 2026. What does that look like for you? 14:33 - Michael Virnoche You know, and I've, I've been trying to think on this one, not looking into, you know, where, how much I've scaled in 2025. Um, you know, I think in 2026, I'm looking at potentially maybe only one more client bringing them on, um, and continuing to expand my current clients. Um, you know, we've got, you know, well, well, that I'm starting a lot of the journeys again because I'm looking for long-term is we start a lot smaller and like kind of prove, you know, prove that it's a good working relationship and that they're getting the benefit out of it. So now going into 2026, expanding my existing clients into, you know, basically getting more involved with them. But yeah, I don't think I'll be doing any huge sales pushes in 2026 marketing. Campaigns, so. 15:29 - Donna Well, we always like that little trickle and we never know what's, what's going to happen. There's like, you know, additional leads coming in and things. So, you know, that is the exciting thing about entrepreneurship as well. Like we just, we never know, um, what potential could, could happen in the next few months. Keeps it exciting. 15:48 - Michael Virnoche It's, uh, I'm, I'm hoping to find that balance of actually like having more, more family time. So, you know. Know, finding that balance between the clients and the business and, you know, just being around more so. 16:04 - Donna Family is such, it's such an important part of, of CTOx both in, you know, in, in our side and for the members. What's been the major shift on a family or personal side from joining CTOx versus being that IBM W2? 16:20 - Michael Virnoche I think some of the shift came down to, especially in those early days and working on the business. I didn't think there were any less hours in the day when I was at IBM and working around the clock and on call 24-7. And I found in the entrepreneurial world, there's even less hours for sleep. So, I think that was the big shift in the change of just, it's not that nine to five, not that I think anyone in the tech world really has a nine nine to five, but you know, it's, it's seven days a week. It's, you know, the end of Friday is like the, the client, I don't, you know, the client businesses are closed and now I have to work on the business. And so, you know, then the weekends are, you know, what are the next campaigns and strategies and outreach and making sure that all the reports are written and everything. So it's you know, I think that was the big, big change is just, it was even more time. But when you look at the, The big picture of it, it's the time that's going to pay off in the dividends. You have to do the payment upfront to benefit in the end. 17:28 - Donna Yeah, absolutely. And, and kind of laying that, we talk about laying that foundation. Once you have that foundation laid, you've built that personal brand, um, you know, then, you know, you get to kind of your status where, where clients are fighting each other just to get your attention. Like that's where, that's where we. We want everybody to go. So if 2012, almost 2026, Michael could go back and give a message to 2024, Michael, what would you say? 18:03 - Michael Virnoche Stop spending so much time fighting Marissa and Leor on just, just doing it. 18:16 - Donna Was it just that they just wore you down? What was the thing that finally just clicked that you should have told yourself back in 2024? 18:25 - Michael Virnoche I don't know if it was the wearing it down, but it's just enough of that. Enough of I was in the same loop long enough. Clearly, I wasn't going to figure out how to break the loop. And from 15 minutes into the very first time I ever talked to Lior, he was like, I was like, Oh yeah, do this. I was like, Oh, it just, you know, happened to take me five months to finally be like, yeah, he was probably right after 15 minutes. 18:53 - Donna He's not often wrong. He's not often wrong. And sometimes, sometimes the, uh, the truth can, can be a bit direct. Uh, and you know, but, but honesty is the only place that's going to get you to success for sure. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you. Thank you, Michael, so much. Uh, we really appreciate you, you, you sharing, uh, your journey with us, but now we have our Final segment. Michael doesn't know anything about this. This is going to be a little bit of surprise, but we're going to do something a little special. I'm going to ask Chat got live right here for a thought provoking, timely question, completely generated on the spot. And you have to answer it. Are you game? Made it this far, why not? Spoiler alert, you're not allowed to say no. OK, so I'm going to bring up my Chat gpt. There we go, we all love Chat gpt here. So, hello Chat gpt. We love a bit of spontaneity, so we thought who better to challenge us than AI? What question would you fractional CTO Michael at this exact moment in time. Oh, okay. Michael, ChatGPT would like to know if you could fractionalize any role beyond CTO, CMO, CFO, or even CEO, which one would you disrupt next and how would you do it differently? 20:34 - Michael Virnoche I think I'd have to go CMO on that one, but then I'd never have to deal with marketing again. 20:41 - Donna And so how would you, how did you think it would change to have a fractional CMO rather than a full-time CMO? A regular kind of CMO in the company or any other role for that matter? 21:14 - Michael Virnoche I think the CMO is one of those that can be positioned well for fractionalizing because a lot of it, while it's the thinking on how to do it, you know, just like in the conversations that you and I've had, like once the campaign goes out and start, like you're not, there's really nothing next to do. 21:32 - Michael Virnoche You're just starting about the next one. 21:33 - Michael Virnoche And so I think that's one of those roles where you have all that kind of time where you're going to figure out the planning and like, how's it going to be structured? 21:42 - Michael Virnoche But like once it's done, it's, it's now in place until kind of, we can get the telemetry coming out of the end. 21:49 - Michael Virnoche Like was it successful? 21:50 - Michael Virnoche Was it not? 21:50 - Michael Virnoche What was the conversions? 21:52 - Michael Virnoche But like from the CMO perspective, once you start the campaign and it's, you know, a lead is coming into the funnel, it's really no longer CMO's responsibility to like close the deal. 22:02 - Michael Virnoche Like the point is you got the lead. 22:03 - Michael Virnoche So I think from, from that aspect of it, the CMO is a good fractional opportunity. 22:12 - Michael Virnoche Um, you know, trying to do all of the marketing for myself, which I really hate and despise. 22:17 - Michael Virnoche And even, you know, with my clients that like, they don't like marketing either. 22:20 - Michael Virnoche It's very much of like, this is an opportunity again, where you've seen from the CTO perspective, like fractional can really pay dividends here because now you don't have to stress over that part of it. 22:31 - Michael Virnoche Like you can not stress over the marketing aspect of it, bring in a fractional CMO. 22:37 - Donna And how do you think, like, cause I do see this in the future where there's going to be other fractional roles. 22:43 - Donna Like, how do you see them working with each other? 22:46 - Donna Like, do you think that's going to have a negative impact or are people going to understand the role better? 22:52 - Michael Virnoche I don't think it's going to have a negative And I think from the fractional perspective, looking into the future, especially, you know, in this day and age, when it comes to AI and how fast companies are trying to move, but how fast entrepreneurs are trying to move, you know, it, having that fractional option helps the, you know, up and coming CEO that has a great idea and knows the idea, but they don't know all the other aspects of the business. 23:22 - Michael Virnoche And so rather than like, you can try try to learn all of the other aspects of the business and try to be the CFO of your company and hope you didn't file anything wrong or, you know, your in-house counsel and hope that, you know, you filed the patent correctly. 23:35 - Michael Virnoche But I think that's where a lot of the fractional benefits come in as you're scaling quickly. 23:42 - Michael Virnoche And you don't know what you don't know, that you can kind of like pick and choose them and you don't have to go through a whole like vetting and trying to do W-2 and tons of hiring and all of that. 23:52 - Michael Virnoche I don't see it as being a negative in the future. 23:54 - Michael Virnoche I think it starts to become like the, you know, the pieces that you put into the puzzle of the company that you're building. 24:02 - Donna Pieces of the puzzle. 24:03 - Donna I like that. 24:04 - Donna I like that. 24:04 - Donna And then if everybody takes that, you know, that fractional role, um, as a, as a team role and not like an external role, I think it benefits everybody. 24:14 - Donna That would be great. 24:17 - Donna Well, Michael, thank you again. 24:19 - Donna So much. 24:20 - Donna We've really enjoyed spending this day with you and learning more about your journey. 24:26 - Donna And we really, really appreciate all the insights that you've shared with us today. 24:30 - Donna So join us next time on Inside CTOx. 24:35 - Donna Stories, experiences, and advice you hear today are incredibly valuable, not just for CTOs, but for the broader tech community and leaders. 24:43 - Donna To our listeners, thanks for tuning in to Inside CTOx. 24:47 - Donna Don't forget to follow us on social media, tag us and share your favorite insights from the episode. 24:52 - Donna We love hearing your feedback. 24:54 - Donna Make sure to subscribe and check in again for our next episode, where we'll continue to explore the stories behind the tech leaders shaping the future. 25:02 - Donna Until next time.