Inside CTOx with Paul McRae (Final).m4a
Wed, Nov 12, 2025

0:00 - Paul McRae
Someone offered me a big bag of money to go back and work for them. Could I really do that? And I'm not sure I could. I'm not sure at this point in time. What's the outcome? What are we trying to achieve? And so for me, that was a transition that I'm very proud of because now I'm talking about the things that I've done for 30 years in a very different way.

0:21 - Donna
Welcome to Inside CTOx Podcast. I'm Donna, head of membership and partner We're stepping Inside the minds of some of the most innovative tech leaders out there. This isn't just a podcast. It's a place where CTOx journeys come alive. Where stories of struggles, breakthroughs, and growths unfold. We're here to unpack the experiences of real CTOs navigating through our CTOx accelerator and membership program. So sit back, tune in, let's get into the story. Today we're talking with Paul McRae, a sales leader who's proved he can both sell at the top of his game and lead teams to record-breaking success as SVP. At ServiceNow, he launched the first ever healthcare services delivery practice across the Americas. Now working remotely after decades on the road, Paul has found a new balance between leadership and family life. Let's dive into his journey of transformation and leadership. Welcome, Paul.

1:29 - Donna
Now, you joined CTOx quite a while ago. If you can remember, if it's not too far back, if you can remember way back at the start, what was that moment that made you make the decision, I need to join CTOx?

1:47 - Paul McRae
I think that if I were to kind of encapsulate where I was mentally at that time, I had been on several decades worth of a journey with large IT companies, VMware, ServiceNow, AWS, AT&T. And I found that I had lost my passion for corporate politics, the corporate machine. My personal journey, the last 16 years of my career has specifically been dedicated towards healthcare technology. And what I've enjoyed most is the work that I'm doing directly benefits people, caregivers, as well as patients. And I felt that working for these corporations for all these years, I really had no line of sight to the good that our work was doing. We might save a client, you know, millions of dollars on a contract or implement a solution worth millions of dollars. And there's no direct indication on who's benefited other than the cost has been reduced, someone gets a new bonus. And so finding the CTOx program, was perfect for me at this time. As I started to explore ways in which I could leverage my experience from multiple decades of work, I felt empowerment being around other similar seasoned executives. And then the leadership team around CTOx really kind of shades in the pieces that you really don't think about as a leader. You know, as an example, being able to understand that you're marketing yourself an individual, you're no longer marking yourself as a fortune five company, uh, understanding how to actually communicate your value without giving things away. Um, being able to understand what is a priority at the moment. Historically, when I've worked for other larger companies, I would go in and build out the roadmap, build out the products, build out the marketing. And all of that is similar to what you would see at AWS. VMware ServiceNow, etc. However, as an individual proprietor building a business, you have to think about the maximum use of your time and the hours in which you're applying to any specific task. And having resources around both peers of mine, as well as organizational leaders such as yourself, Marissa, and then of course, Lior with his magnificent experience, really kind of allows you some real world perspective on how to position yourself and grow your business. And so for me, the timing was absolutely perfect. The experience of being able to share like a track record and tenure with my members, and then the intelligence that someone can bring to the conversation. Marissa wrote professionally, Leor has been building his business for multiple decades. You know, when you can rely on resources like that, it says, here's another perspective. That really takes a lot of the anxiety of making that transition from traditional corporate W-2 to individual proprietary.

4:49 - Donna
That's great. Yes, we hear this a lot, like there just seems to be a single moment in time where the stars align and it just feels like the right time to jump in. So thinking about your journey through the CTOx Accelerator and beyond, tell me a moment when you felt really challenged?

5:11 - Paul McRae
There was, and it's interesting because as you indicated at the top of the session, I have been, I've extended my program time. And so because of that, you see new members coming on board throughout the entire period. Inevitably, every single one goes through the same wall that they hit. About midway through the first six months, so about three months into it, you come to the realization that everything that you had been doing, and in most cases had success doing, doesn't work. And so it doesn't mean you have to forget it, it just means you have to think differently in doing it. And that's something that really is tough, because logically, you get to the point where you join a fractional program like this, or you choose you wanna be a fractional resource, after you've had some tenure and time in your role, your traditional W-2. Now with me, has to do is unwind all of the things that you thought you were good at or you thought would produce success and reuse them in different ways. And so writing becomes a different challenge. Maybe you had a resource that wrote for you before. Now you have to actually write. You're not solving a task and checking a box. You're actually building out a story. So maybe it might start off with an outreach. Hi, how you doing? And then followed up lead magnet, something that gets them interested in talking to you. And then what's the next steps after that? Being involved with a team of people. And one of the pieces of the program that I've thoroughly enjoyed is the peer progress group and having the ability to actually circle up as a group. And in many cases, we're at different timelines in terms of our commitment to the program and talk about things that you're actually facing while you're running a business. Because one of the key differences for me personally has been that when I ran a business here, I had 175 people reporting to me. I had a secretary, a chief of staff, an honest manager. So there was constant dialogue all day long about the business. When you're an individual contributor, not only do you have to manage your work, but you also have to manage your mentality. And so when you come to work and you're sitting at your desk, it's your time, it's your plan. You can use it or lose it, however you choose to do it. However, you also You also have to manage your mental state of mind. And I've learned in the group, which is also an interesting element of the program, is the mental focus that's offered as a module, if you would. And doing that, you really start to think about, how am I evaluating myself? How am I evaluating opportunities? Am I evaluating it incorrectly? I had a mentor ask me years ago, said, are you asking the right questions? In the CTOx pro CTOx X program, you're, you're, you're encouraged to think about different types of questions, different ways of looking at it. And so this has been, in my opinion, professional training. So this is the execution phase, and application of all of your experiences with some very, very good guidance along the way. So it's not like you spend the money you invest in the program, and you're on the way, but it's, it's a crawl, walk, run approach that allows you to grow with the program.

8:31 - Donna
Yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. And I think, you know, there's one thing of wearing lots of different hats and I think that's talked about quite a bit when we think about entrepreneur, but you're absolutely right. The mindset shift, how you approach this is, is very different and we don't, we don't see that talked about enough. Yeah, that's absolutely.

8:52 - Paul McRae
one of the most difficult thing that I needed to get to. And I remember a story. Actually, this is a great story. At one point in time, right around that three month period, you start asking yourself, do I go back to job? Do I go back to work? Do I get a job? And I'm sure you remember, because we talked about it. But one of the things Marissa said to me that was really mind shifting. And I like history. And she said, burn the boats, and I And I'm a visual guy, so this really visually struck me because when the Vikings went to war, they burned the boats, so there was no way to turn around. And so the mentality of being fully committed is a lot more than words. It's actually fully embracing this transition and saying it. And I can honestly say I'm at the point now where it would be difficult to go back and get a job because I've invested so much mentally into this, I've put in so much I've developed a different way of thinking. I even asked myself recently, if someone offered me a big bag of money to go back and work for them, could I really do that? And I'm not sure I could. I'm not sure at this point in time.

10:03 - Donna
That's great. We love to hear that. We love to hear that because it is, it's such a huge transformation. And that's why I think so many people find it so interesting and want to hear, hear your stories. Um, I'm going to, What has surprised you the most about your personal growth through the CTOx program?

10:27 - Paul McRae
I'll give you the good and the bad. What surprised me the most is that as a salesperson and later evolved to BD, as the bigger name would get into, you're incrementally rewarded by contracts, you're incrementally rewarded by You know, this contract is grown, so there's an existing residual revenue. As an individual contributor, you don't get those daily vinnies. And so now you start to think about how do I keep myself motivated? Because for me personally, my career has always been tied to success of getting a contract, growing a business, you know, reducing the cost as an IT outsourcer and my career at one point in time. And so that's a difficult thing. The positive side is what has happen as it relates to creating and writing and learning and articulating. You know, when you're in a business, as an example, I spent the majority of my career talking to CIOs and I had to really change the way I was thinking about the business because when you're AT&T or VMware or ServiceNow, that CIO is going to take your call. However, when you're a fractional CTOx, I had to come to the realization that If I walked into CTOx X, in his mind, there was a possibility that he thought I was calling his baby ugly. And so given that business is largely focused on optimization of their environment and really tied to the business controls of the entity or the customer, the client, I moved my, my business to conversations focused at CEO and COO. And so I commend myself because now I. I speak very differently about the business and the solutions. It's more about the operation and as Lior likes to say, the outcome. What's the outcome? What are we trying to achieve? And so for me, that was a transition that I'm very proud of because now I'm talking about the things that I've done for 30 years in a very different way.

12:31 - Donna
Yeah, that's great. So can you share a story about a relationship that you've built through CTOx and and how's that impacted you on a personal level?

12:44 - Paul McRae
There is a member, Ben Saunders, who I connected with very early on and over the course of my career I've always and I encourage my daughter now when she's meeting someone to ask very incremental questions. So where are you from You know, where'd you go to school? You know, family and so I found that Ben was from New Jersey and I spent a lot of my life in the New Jersey, New York area. And so we clicked very easily, very early on. What I love about Ben is he made a decision very early in his career, very similar to Lior in the sense that he did not want to work for someone else. And so one would assume that that's the guy, the junk man pulling pieces together and so forth and so on. And that is absolutely not who Ben is. Ben is a professional He's a, he's an action guy. He's a keep it real guy. And so when I went through that period of what am I doing, Ben and I got on a call and he said, I'm kind of shocked to hear this because when I heard your background, I thought that you would just kill it in this. And I said, it's a totally rewiring of it, of my mind. And so for me, having someone, one remind me of that I have been successful. And to give me a different sense and a different approach to it really kind of calmed me and allowed me to accelerate. One of the things that that has been brought into our peer progress group, which has been as a part is keep it simple. You just need to make the connection, get to know the person and then follow up with something more personal. There's no secret sauce or trick. It's about volume in the beginning. And then once you make the contact, it's about adding value and the conversation or the communication, whether it be an email or lead magnet or a white paper or whatever the case may be. And that sense of calm that I got from a guy who's been an entrepreneur all of his life, who himself had some struggles in the beginning, who has really identified what works for him. And he's living his best life right now. So I really appreciated that relationship.

14:52 - Donna
Yeah, Ben's Ben's great. And I think sometimes we see these people who are are successful and we see the front end of it and we think, wow, everything just must fall effortlessly into their lap. And that's really not the case. When you dig into the story behind the most successful people here at CTOx and other places, there's quite a story behind it.

15:17 - Paul McRae
It's imperative that new members, people considering the program acknowledge that they will go through a wave of roller coasters. You know, there will be a point in time because during that three month period, I got to the point where I didn't want to be on the calls anymore because I was hearing about the success that others were having. And you really kind of have to get over your pride and ego because there's something there that you can apply to you. There is no right answer to everybody. We've got guys that are men and women working on a variety of different businesses, airplanes, golf, the whole nine yards, but hearing how they're processing it, because they're also two tenured successful professionals that can offer value and how they mentally went through that transition. And I think that being able to find your bend in the program is an absolute.

16:15 - Donna
Find your bend. There we go. We might turn that into a segment. Thanks for that. And what's one piece of advice that you've learned in the accelerator, but that you'll carry with you forever?

16:27 - Paul McRae
Always speak about value and impact. You know, I, uh, it's, it's imperative that you have a framework in terms of how you think and approach anything. And so whether it's, you know, business related or decisions you need to make for your family, being able to think about what's the end goal. And really it's no different than, you know, Jeff Bezos talks about working backwards and the so forth and so on. But being able to really apply that beyond just the client conversation is something I've excitedly said. What do we need to accomplish? You hear me saying to my wife and daughter nowadays, what's the end goal here? And then what needs to happen to get to that end goal is something that's heavily emphasized in the program.

17:12 - Donna
Your daughter's going to learn so much just from you in this program. I hope she becomes an entrepreneur.

17:19 - Paul McRae
How much she actually retains or receives, I don't know, but yes, I hear you.

17:26 - Donna
So where do you see yourself and your family in 12 months, thanks to your experience here at CTOx?

17:32 - Paul McRae
You know, I honestly want to stay close to CTOx, you know, so I can't see myself walking away. I should say that's not the plan in the next 12 months. If the business continues to keep growing like I want to, I would like to have the ability to travel more. I know I called that out in one of my very first conversations with Lior that, you know, when you look at my resume, it says, wow, amazing success, but I haven't traveled internationally to the degree that I want to. Um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm at a point in my career or my life where it's not about buying stuff. It's about time with friends and family. And so I hope to continue to expand my latitude in that regard, be able to from somewhere remotely. You know, be able to take time off when I wanted to. You know, the marketing video, I'll call it, that Lior does, where he really goes into the detail about, you get a chance to choose who you like and who you want to work with. You know, for many of us, more specifically me, it's about the job. It's about the paycheck. And that has not been very rewarding. And inevitably, if everyone takes a look at their life and says what really matters, who you work with, what work you do, how impactful the work is, what matters to you, then I think you realize that there's more than just heads down and typing on a keyboard. And this gives you, this program really gives you an opportunity. I won't say it's the end all be all for everyone, but they give you the framework and the controls to actually make that transition.

19:12 - Donna
So what I hear you saying is you're going to be dialing into the next sales gym from a yacht on a Saint-Tropez.

19:17 - Paul McRae
That would be a great plan. However, for me, it's probably going to be in Hawaii. That's my happy place.

19:28 - Donna
All right. Well, I hope you get good, good weather for Hawaii. Onto our Final segment. Paul doesn't know anything about this, so this is, this is It's brand new. So we're going to do something a bit special. I'm going to ask Chachi P.T. Live right now for a thought provoking timely question completely generated on the spot and you got to answer it.

19:57 - Paul McRae
Oh my gosh.

19:58 - Donna
You ready?

20:01 - Paul McRae
Only because this can be edited out, but let's go.

20:04 - Donna
No editing, no editing. This section cannot be edited. You have to give us your honest, honest opinion. All right. I'm going to, I'm going to dictate into, into Jatubti.

20:15 - Paul McRae
I'm nervous now.

20:17 - Donna
Okay, here we go. Hello, Jatubti. We love a bit of spontaneity, so we thought who better to challenge us than AI? What question would you like to ask Paul, our fractional CTOx at this exact moment in time? Okay, let's see. It's thinking, it's thinking, it's thinking. Oh, okay. This is interesting. If tomorrow your entire engineering team demanded a four day work week with zero loss in output, would you fight it, embrace it, or radically redesign the organization? To make it work?

21:05 - Paul McRae
I would embrace it. And I would consider what would need to be changed to make it work. And I say this because there were a point in time in my career where I worked for an officer. This is when I ran the Southeast for AT&T. And he said, I don't care if you can make your numbers in three days a week and play golf the other two days a week. However, what I would ask you to question is, how much could you really produce if you were doing four days a week? And so really, it's about the balance of what needs to be achieved, and the constant productivity out of your team, if they're going to be productive at home, or between the hours of 11 at night, and five in the morning, as long as you're accomplishing the task, that's really all that matters to me. Having run a variety teams, I find that where I've had the most success in my organizations is when you really allow the individual to perform at their personal best, not how I dictated, not how I organize it. Because the client, if this was my team, the client is really only caring about the end goal, the output, the deliverable. And so if we could functionally redesign the organization to elevate the satisfaction of the team and maintain the quality of the work while not impacting the actual deliverable, then I would be all for that. Because a happier team who feels supported is a more productive team and have less risk for errors or independent strategies.

22:46 - Donna
Thank you. Thank you. That was a good question, right? Yeah, I'm sure Chern would go down quite a bit on the team as well if they got a four-hour, four-day work week.

22:58 - Paul McRae
I took a class, I got a certification through the University of Texas several years ago, and a bunch of VPs went to this training for a week. And one of the things that was discussed was managing across demographics, the age group. So at that time, you had some baby boomers who were at the end of their careers, you have to think about how to manage them. And then on the far end, you've got, at this time, at that time, it was millennials, right? And so we talked about different work styles, different communication styles, and so forth and so on. And I do not believe that forcing someone to come into the office is going to be an absolute. For certain roles, yes, that makes sense because of collaboration, but to put a blanket order over the organization and say, you've got to do it this way, or that way is counterproductive to what your outcome should be. You know, what you want to do is produce the most effective, efficient, nimble team to suit the task. And if they require working at different hours, as long as they can meet the goals, deliver the reports, provide the answers we need, all four.

24:08 - Donna
And why do you think managers insist on, on people being in the office? Is that their own just personal preference? Or what do you think?

24:18 - Paul McRae
I think it's I think a little bit of it has to do with age and demographics, you know, control, right? So if I can see you outside your desk, think about the way offices used to be designed. There's a glass window, and the office and then everybody worked in pods out there like they were part of this, you know, army troop or something to that degree. And so there is some of that mentality and that my wife and I talked about often that There's a little bit of bleed over from the generation before that you had to do it this way, so forth and so on. The challenge that we find today, personal opinion, is that there is a generation coming to the ranks who have automatically almost dismissed what's happened before, the historical piece of it.

25:03 - Paul McRae
And so there is this control element that says, all right, you don't believe what I'm saying, come to the office.

25:10 - Paul McRae
I'll see, I'll show you, we'll make you do it.

25:12 - Paul McRae
That's a conflict or a rub that doesn't need to exist.

25:19 - Paul McRae
However, I don't necessarily have the static answer for this, this different model of working, because I like to say, I kind of have a little bit of both, right?

25:28 - Paul McRae
I get to work, do it the same way every day, use technology to accelerate it.

25:32 - Paul McRae
So I kind of sit in the middle of it.

25:34 - Paul McRae
I do think, and, um, Part of it comes from feeling supported as a worker.

25:41 - Paul McRae
And so if it's a give and a get, you know, what do you want to go?

25:45 - Paul McRae
You know, I always start my conversations with my employees with what matters to you is really the theme of the discussion.

25:51 - Paul McRae
What are your drivers?

25:53 - Paul McRae
I'm supposed to be a servant leader here to make you successful.

25:57 - Paul McRae
And if the individual doesn't hear that, then it's just a job.

26:02 - Paul McRae
It's not a mission.

26:03 - Paul McRae
If it's a mission, I'm understanding what matters to you I'm understanding you want to become a director you want to run a team let's get you into some meetings and sit next to me you don't see anything you just hear you know therefore we're building a continuity and a connectedness across the team and that's when you put the best performance of work because now I've asked you Donna what matters to you why are you doing this maybe it's like maybe your answer is I want to go to school and I got to make as much money as I can I know what matters to you so I'm gonna what matters to you.

26:36 - Paul McRae
And, and, um, and to close it, I used to start off, I used to start off every sales or sales year with, I'd say, take a picture, put it on your mirror in your bathroom to my workforce.

26:49 - Paul McRae
And I said, there are going to be days when you absolutely hate the job.

26:54 - Paul McRae
And the picture is either going to see a picture of a car or a boat or a vacation.

26:59 - Paul McRae
You want to take your grandmother somewhere, whatever it is, but it's the buy in of why you're doing this that really drives what your behavior is gonna be.

27:09 - Paul McRae
And if I'm not connected with your buy-in, we haven't had the what matters to you conversation, then you're just a number.

27:17 - Paul McRae
And I shouldn't be able to count on you to be there because it's just a number, number for a check.

27:22 - Donna
That's good advice.

27:24 - Donna
Well, Paul, thank you so much for joining us today.

27:28 - Donna
Thank you for sharing your journey and your insights.

27:32 - Donna
really appreciate you and we'll chat to you soon.

27:36 - Donna
Stories, experiences and advice you hear today are incredibly valuable, not just for CTOs, but for the broader tech community and leaders.

27:44 - Donna
To our listeners, thanks for tuning in to Insight CTOx.

27:48 - Donna
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27:53 - Donna
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27:55 - Donna
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28:03 - Donna
Until next time.